Opinion:Lack of complete common examples limits ExtJS's Use

[Animal]

For god's sake man!

I was using it to contrast with people who get paid to develop, but do not actually work at it! Who give up at the first hurdle. Who are not interested in using the correct tools for the job, getting their hands dirty and debugging their code.

People who just throw their hands up and wail at the first sign of difficulty.

And there are dozens of them, wailing about how difficult it is to step through a little bit of code, looking at what goes on. If you reply and ask them what their variables contain using Firebug, or what their DOM contains, their threads go quiet for a while, then get bumped with a ""

If that's not you, then why are you going on so much?

[JeffHowden]

Originally Posted by SellingPower

[...] I have been working with javascript for at least 15 years.[...]

Unless you are just visiting from an alternate reality that's at least 2 years ahead of us, you have most definitely not been working with JavaScript for at least 15 years. Even if you have a round of beer with Brendan Eich weekly, the best you could hope for is just over 12 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript

[dangreenfield]

Animal, calm down.

The wailing, and the not being able to debug properly, is most definately a problem, and something that's understandably frustrating. But it's also a cry for help and a problem worth tackling.

I get so much pleasure from extjs when I'm able to understand how something works and then modify it to suit my needs, but there is still a lot that really frustrates me because I just can't get my mind around it. It's like my mind just isn't capable of putting all the pieces of a particular function together and I end up chasing my tail trying to get the thing to work the way I want it to.

Perhaps I'm just getting too old, but then perhaps that too is just another reason why more indepth documentation is needed - so that more then just young minds can comprehend it. By indepth documentation, in my case, I'm referring to better code comments so that I can follow the logic and work out how it does what it does.

All I'm saying is let's come up with some way to improve the situation for all levels of developers, even the ones that frustrate the hell out of you - like me!

[jgarcia@tdg-i.com]

Originally Posted by JeffHowden

Unless you are just visiting from an alternate reality that's at least 2 years ahead of us, you have most definitely not been working with JavaScript for at least 15 years. Even if you have a round of beer with Brendan Eich weekly, the best you could hope for is just over 12 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript

[mdm-adph]

Originally Posted by SeaSharp2

Why don't you buy a scanning electron microscope and watch those CPU op codes run in realtime, then you will really understand how your software works

If I was coding in some sort of machine code or straight-up binary, then your suggestion wouldn't be that unreasonable.

Ugh -- but don't compare Firebug to an electron microscope. To me, coding JavaScript without Firebug (hell, without Ext for that matter) is like driving at night without your lights on -- yeah, it can be done, but why?

[mystix]

@djliquidice, i'm a little more old fashioned...

[jgarcia@tdg-i.com]

Originally Posted by mystix

@djliquidice, i'm a little more old fashioned...

C'mon, who doesn't like a Delorean?

[mystix]

Originally Posted by jgarcia@tdg-i.com

C'mon, who doesn't like a Delorean?

aye, but does it fly

*chuckle*
anyways, i'll make my (un?)graceful exit from here. musn't detract from the intention of this heated discussion.

[outrage]

You know, this thread surprises me.

Here we have people new to ExtJS trying to help out by explaining the problems they encounter when starting out, yet we're getting condescending remarks from the very people I would expect to be taking this on-board.

The documentation is pretty good, but there are parts that could be improved.
If you find that constructive criticism hard to take, then perhaps you're taking things too personally.

Those asking for improved documentation aren't pointing the finger at anyone in particular, they just saying they could have saved themselves some time if they had known something they feel should have been documented in the first place.

I'm quite happy to help build up the documentation from a newbies point of view, as Jack already pointed out, it's difficult to imagine the problems faced by newcomers when some of you guys know this thing inside out.

Several good ideas have already been mentioned but it seems to be falling on deaf ears.

Rather than poking fun or personally slurring someone's character or abilities, can't we just come up with some idea to help us help you?

[dantheman]

Originally Posted by dangreenfield

The word "professional" was being used in a way that promotes one programmer above another and this was what I was attempting to clarify as being ridiculous.

You are correct that "professional" is a term used to distinguish some from others.
It's appropriate. I can't say whether you just are put off by an aversion to "tall poppies"
or just don't understand that some know more.

My cs grad degree was focused on artificial life, but I wasn't (in any way) a professional
in biology. I worked many years as a unix sa after that, developing tools at various scales,
but I never considered myself a professional programmer. I finally bit the bullet in the mid 90s
and became a programmer (or whatever the euphamism is nowadays). I had to significantly
round out my coding experience even though I'd been working in the field for over a decade.

In my mind, a false egalitarianism is no better than false humility.

Originally Posted by dangreenfield

We're all on the same journey . . . Turning your back on them and putting yourself in another category altogether is foolish. Extjs will then only become a specialised tool for those programmers who are [insert special category here] and then a more friendly framework developer (like Yahoo) will eventually come along and cater to everyone.

And this is the point: we are not all on the same journey.

And no one has turned their back on anyone.
ExtJS will be a specialized tool, simply owing to its inherent complexity.

There are simpler frameworks out there. They are also not as powerful.
As Einstein said, make things as simple as possible, but no simpler.

--dan